Posts by not a captive

27

Hubby is concerned with me being on this site.

by crazy2try in

jw
friends

my husband and i have been fading for sometime.

we did attend the memorial this year with his parents.

we have had quite a few heart to heart conversations about us leaving the witnesses slowly.

not a captive

Dear Crazy,

Everything said here is great advise (including the suggestion involving sexy lingerie). My perspective comes from another angle, however. No one in my family was a JW or even associating by the time I was exiting after 21+ years. So no one would have done anything but cheer for me if I had looked at this forum. OMG they would have Cheered-and-Danced!

But I had to find the clarity in my own motives before I could benefit from the wonderful healing available here. The tender and most vulnerable part of us is our desire to do what is right in our Father's eyes, our heavenly Father's eyes. But it is this very part of us, this tender and vulnerable conscience that has been invaded by a cancer --the cancer is our loyalty to the Organization.

I don't want to get bogged down in this cancer analogy too much beyond this: Jesus was dealing with spiritual cancer victims in his ministry, the Jewish people who had lost the sense of what the law could and couldn't do, should and shouldn't do. The Pharisees made them feel inadequate to please God or even know enough to please God. What he did was strengthen and affirm their inner love of right and of his Father's love for them. He strengthened and affirmed that they were children of Abraham if they actually did the works of Abraham (Abraham didn't know squat but he was open to learning). In fact this thought strengthened me l in the end to really set me free.

If our conscience is not free to answer to God ahead of the Corporation, then we are not children of Abraham--we cannot be followers of Christ. If you tell your husband that you want to follow Jesus from your heart and do so without fear then even if you go to meetings for a time or two the day will come when on your way there you will just stop midway and realize that you just can't do it any more. And, if you are like me, your prayers will become richer and more direct from then on.

I want to say one more thing that I found helpful when fears pressed me down. I told both myself and the elders-- and friends who worried about me that even if I were wrong in the directions my inquirey took me, my conviction could not be "unbelieved" by threats or ridicule or well-intentioned warnings. Because I felt better standing before God with a whole heart and a clear conscience.

If you tell this to your hubby perhaps he will feel better. But more than that, tell it to yourself to get strength for the road ahead.

9

A potsherd with writing from the time of King David--How 'bout that?

by not a captive in

writing on a potsherd found over a year ago in qeiyafa near the elah valley has been deciphered by professor gershon galil of the university of haifa.

it is said to be the oldest known extant inscription in the hebrew language.

the potsherd was radiocarbon dated to c. 1000 bc which is around the time of king david.

not a captive

What is over-all so stunning is the crude manner of writing. Although Hebrew became more sophisticated later on the earliest information used this grammar challenged form of expression. I gather that the Book of Job bears the marks of this ancient picto-graph transmission. And also notably the ancient story of Genesis 22. The problem of conveying spiritual concepts seems to depend very much on the hearer/reader to have a willing heart. Abraham learned what a "burnt offering" truly was. And "faith" took on a meaning that it never had before either.

Certainly the written words that men and women of faith had available to convey their experiences of God would have to develop and grow in the course of their accumulated association with Jehovah. It seems to me that the earliest stories naturally reflect the limits of their understanding along with the limits of their spiritual vocabulary.I ndeed there surely had to be moments that words did not exist sufficient to express God's nature and ideals.

Jesus used parables and his own example.

Thanks for sharing friends.

9

A potsherd with writing from the time of King David--How 'bout that?

by not a captive in

writing on a potsherd found over a year ago in qeiyafa near the elah valley has been deciphered by professor gershon galil of the university of haifa.

it is said to be the oldest known extant inscription in the hebrew language.

the potsherd was radiocarbon dated to c. 1000 bc which is around the time of king david.

not a captive

Writing on a potsherd found over a year ago in Qeiyafa near the Elah valley has been deciphered by Professor Gershon Galil of the University of Haifa. It is said to be the oldest known extant inscription in the Hebrew language. The potsherd was radiocarbon dated to c. 1000 BC which is around the time of King David. Interestingly Elah Valley (if it has been identified correctly) is the location of the famous fight between David and Goliath . I take the radiodate with a degree of scepticism; while useful, radiodates need to be calibrated to artifacts of known dates due to the problems around the amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere versus biosphere and the variable rate of production.

The Qeiyafa inscription used what was described as a proto-Canaanite (variant paleo-Hebrew) script, but as that was also used for other languages the fact it was Hebrew awaited translation.

Prof. Galil's deciphering of the ancient writing testifies to its being Hebrew, based on the use of verbs particular to the Hebrew language, and content specific to Hebrew culture and not adopted by any other cultures in the region. "This text is a social statement, relating to slaves, widows and orphans. It uses verbs that were characteristic of Hebrew, such as asah ("did") and avad ("worked"), which were rarely used in other regional languages. Particular words that appear in the text, such as almanah ("widow") are specific to Hebrew and are written differently in other local languages.

Galil's translation

1′ you shall not do [it], but worship the [Lord].
2′ Judge the sla[ve] and the wid[ow] / Judge the orph[an]
3′ [and] the stranger. [Pl]ead for the infant / plead for the po[or and]
4′ the widow. Rehabilitate [the poor] at the hands of the king.
5′ Protect the po[or and] the slave / [supp]ort the stranger.

Though John Hobbins previously suggested a different translation

1 Do not do [anything bad?], and serve [personal name?]
2 ruler of [geographical name?] . . . ruler . . .
3 [geographical names?] . . .
4 [unclear] and wreak judgment on YSD king of Gath . . .
5 seren of G[aza? . . .] [unclear] . . .

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I took a copy of this to the elders the last time I got to talk with them. Something that struck me about the inscription was that even in the time that it was written there was so little delicate theology that could be riven from this communication that it seemed arrogant for one human to impose upon another requirements as to how to obey-specifically-these commands.

God has real challenges to meet in getting his thoughts through to us, it seems to me. No wonder he had to send the Logos.

Anyway, I had been pondering the difference between the ancient Hebrew words for "burnt offering" and "sacrifice"and how their different meanings changed the way I understood the story of Abraham's "sacrifice" of Isaac.

Just wondered if anyone else wanted to see this stuff.

Maeve

54

Holy spirit reveals stuff through GB--July 15, 2010 WT

by sd-7 in

july 15, 2010 wt page 22, 23:.

would all anointed christians shine?.

in a sense, yes, for all christians would participate.

not a captive

Another point along the line that Truth has a life above the jurisdiction of any Governing Body: Paul had a 14 year ministry which he began without being informed by the "Governing Body"-- the older men and apostles of Jerusalem. Yet when he finally came back and compared notes about his teaching--surprise!--It agreed perfectly with what the regular guyhad been teaching. Truth doesn't have to be filtered through a committee. That is not faith and that is not how Holy Spirit works in a believer.

"DO not call yourself "Leader". You have only one Leader, the Christ." Matt23:10

54

Holy spirit reveals stuff through GB--July 15, 2010 WT

by sd-7 in

july 15, 2010 wt page 22, 23:.

would all anointed christians shine?.

in a sense, yes, for all christians would participate.

not a captive

There are things in this that good sense and the scriptures overturn:

.

Jesus said that Holy Spirit is given to everyone that asks--not to only a few who ask. Luke 11:9-13

The Anointed follow the only Lamb wherever he goes. They do NOT follow the Governing Body--even if that body demands that the other Anointed do so. Rev. 14:4

The WTS has come to deny to their members what they used to promote to new Bible Students. "What? Your clergyman says only they can understand God's word? That is wicked. Of course you can understand the Bible without going to seminary. There is no clergy/laity distinction among true Christians."

36

Question regarding Jesus the Judge, Jehovah the judge.. serious replies please

by callitquits76 in

i was just wondering how a jehovah's witness would answer this.. in john 5:22, the nwt states:.

"the father judges no one, but has committed all the judging to the son".

in rev 18:8, the nwt states:.

not a captive

Here is a thought: the Greek word from which this is translated, krino, has a selection of meanings that, though they are related they are not identical. So it would seem that there is no reason to demand an official meaning in every context. We do not have a Governing Body to rule on its meaning, friends.

krino --- prop. to distinguish, i.e.decide (mentally or judicially); by impl. to try, condemn, punish:--avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

Dear Mad,

I posted to a question of yours on another post (which you haven't read or answered) when I happened to run across your comment above.

You say they love research. Not so. I researched ,using the Bible and our reference material and the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. The outcome was not what you would expect.

It took a year of meetings with elders, a letter to the Branch and more meetings. Though I had never run afoul of the brothers in 21 years of baptism i hit a wall here. No one did any research. If you call repeating script without any thinking at all. The only thing they could say was that we only learn the Truth through the Faithful and Discreet Slave. I pointed out that our own literature was corroborative of the consciencious conviction I had reached over many years of research. The elders treated me with respect for the most part when they met with me on the matter. Except for one . He was the one who warned me that if I were not careful I would "loose out". I asked this question,"Are you telling me that I cannot affirm the words that the Bible uses in this account?" this brother answered "No, you have to say what is in here." And he put his hand on My Book of Bible Stories.

Now, only one brother said it. I asked a second one if he would tell me to do the same. He wouldn't answer me. But no one contradicted theat one statement. I learned in all the subsequent meetings and correspondence that the only concern from the CO and the Branch and the elders was not Jehovah's Character. No one would do any Bible study or research with me . They just asked me to recognize that the Slave gave us the Truth.

I am determined to let God be my judge. I don't argue with JWs The brothers said I couldn't talk to anyone in the congregation about my research.

No, they do not research. Not even the Branch had any compelling material. The corporation answered my letter. But was it the Faithful Slave? No it was just some ordinary person like myself who answered without even signing a real name . Just "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

Face it, It is a corporation--not the Body of Christ. They don't search out the truth. They just cover up for themselves.

282

What accusations do you have about us JWs? AND what group are YOU a part of?

by theMadJW in

.

i'm one of the few jws that freely admit our faults and mistakes.. let's compare notes!.

not a captive

The question is "What accusations do you have about us JWs?"

JW stands for Jehovah's Witnesses. When I got baptised I didn't know that it was only a brand-name. I actually believed it stood for something. I thought I was part of a group of Christians who cared about the truth like Jesus does. But something happened: the Organization told me I could not bear witness any more when I prefered the Bible's telling of Genesis 22 to the bloody version in My Book of Bible Stories.

I asked this question in an elders' meeting and I ask you here: Should I stick to the Bible or just repeat what my "leaders" say? Your answer will incur accusation or not depending on who you want to please.

I know how I answered, I stand accused because I told the JWs that I would not be quiet. I will keep knocking, asking, seeking the holy spirit to direct me.

I told the brothers that I will never be a part of a group ever again. We either are or we are not a true Christian and will fellowship with others who find nothing to condemn in us.

There is no true religion. There is only the Truth.

40

A serious question for Christians and Non-Christians: How Can Love Hate?

by sabastious in

1 john 4:2 - whoever does not love does not know god, because god is love.. .

what does the statement "god is love" mean?

well quite simply that god = love.

not a captive

Amen, Tammy.

I'm seeing it that way. Jesus' remarks at places like Matt. 19: 8 is one of the many times that Jesus affirms a different God than the ones the Pharisees promoted. A God obscured by more than time and language. Just because it "was written" didn't mean that his Father advocated it as his ideal. Jesus said "Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so."

New eyes, new birth.

Thanks for talking to me.

21

Where to appropriately focus and direct our anger (and more importantly - how)

by Mad Sweeney in

jw
friends

this is a tangent from another thread where angry responses to jws was a side-topic.. my opinion is that it is important to remember that the rank and file jw is a victim of the cult and that focusing our anger on any of them individually is doing them a disservice for two reasons:.

1. their behavior, thoughts, and feelings are not their own and are only informed by the borg.

it isn't just or appropriate to attack those who are victims just like many of us were.. 2. opposition, especially angry opposition, reinforces the false information that the borg has indoctrinated in them: that one of the proofs they have "the truth" is that they are persecuted.

not a captive

I have the same problem, Mad. I had to leave too. But of course no one can talk to me now. I have a sense of utter bewilderment at what to do since some of the women friends I left behind are afraid to talk to me. Afraid that they will feel more conflicted than they are all ready. When I think of them dying without ever getting out of slavery I feel terrible. Their husbands are not Witnesses and their family life has been strained and rather horrible. Some kids DF'd and others alienated. Depression and desperation.

I hope you get a good counselor. Sometimes they help. One good thing , even if they are pretty bad--you get to hear yourself talk out loud. That helped me. They listen and say something. It takes a long time to pull the things out that we get so good at covering up.

May God keep you well, Maeve